Scottish Parent Teacher Council

I am currently treasurer of our PTA and since our chairperson stepped down, I have taken on the duties of both the treasurer and the chair. Should I stay as treasurer if I offer to take over the chair on a permanent basis?

As you seem to be able to fill the role of Chairperson, I think you should volunteer to do it permanently. However, you should try to recruit someone for the post of treasurer. You could ask a teacher or try to recruit someone on an "acting" basis. Indeed, the "acting" route may be the way to improve the manpower problem. Quite often people are frightened to get involved because of the commitment. However, people may be more willing to "help out" or get involved on an "acting" basis. Perhaps you could start by making a list of possible helpers, making a point of trying to recruit someone from each year group. You could tell them they would be contact people for the year and that you would call on them once a term, and that they could always say "no". Quite often when people do get involved, they find they enjoy it and are willing to do more.

Help please! What information should we keep confidential?

Confidentiality is about protecting named individuals. So, if someone contacts you about a problem, you can discuss the problem but not mention the name of the person in anyway unless they have agreed in advance that they are quite happy being named.

This is even more important if you are passing on a letter or email of complaint that you have received.

It is important that any personal details are blanked out first. However, some information which people think is confidential is not. For example, information on school funding is public information and can/should be shared with all parents, not kept secret under some mistaken idea that money matters should be kept confidential.

Who can vote at our AGM?

The short answer is all the parents and teachers that attend. The PTA is not just the committee - although many think it is.

The PTA is a membership organisation, owned by all the members and run by a committee on their behalf. The AGM is when the PTA committee reports back to the parent and teacher members and is held accountable for what it has done, for the events it has organised and for how it has spent any money that's been raised.

In the AGM all decisions should be based on the majority vote of those parents and teachers who attend.

Should we fund explanatory leaflets for our school?

Funding explanatory leaflets falls into the grey area of local authority provision. In theory the school should have enough funds to cover such communications but in practice they often don't.

On the other hand such communications certainly fit the objective of most PTAs to improve home-school links. Moreover, you can view a leaflet explaining a school policy as meeting the needs of the parents rather than the needs of the school.

I would suggest it is therefore a legitimate area for the PTA to spend money on. It is similar to action taken by some PTAs to fund an annual school mail shot to parents.

However, it is very important to discuss such a proposal and consider whether in principle it does fall within the objective of the PTA, rather than simply hand over the money because you have been asked for it.

Should we be able to ask local businesses to sponsor school events?

Recently our PTA wanted to have local businesses sponsor buses for their school trip but were informed by the head teacher he was not in support of such a method of fund raising, he suggested it was against the "Policy" of the Education Authority. The PTA felt this was a good way of involving the local business community in the activities of the school and the decision of the head teacher would close a lot of avenues for fund-raising.

This is a very sensitive issue because, although you see it as simply getting someone else to pay for the school transport, there are a lot of questions of principle about involving commercial firms in schools. The local businesses might be totally virtuous, but does that open the door to Nike or Coca Cola coming into the school? This is a matter of very heated debate in many areas and some authorities are coming to the decision that it is best to say "no" to all sponsorship rather than allow some and then have the difficult problem of working out where to draw the line and refusing others.
From the messages we have had about sponsorship, I am aware that even seemingly OK organisations can be involved in activities - perhaps in the Third World - that some parents at the school object to. Moreover, commercial companies apparently spend some Ł300 million pounds promoting products in schools which they see as good places to advertise in because there is less competition in terms of other advertising and you have a captive audience.
There is no reason why the local companies couldn't pay for the transport without advertising, if they really want to support the school. The head teacher might allow some modest acknowledgment of this in the PTAs annual report as in "we thank the following for their help throughout the year". However, it is important to recognise that the head teacher will be caught between two camps on this one - those who see no harm in sponsorship and those who oppose it for a series of principled reasons. The head teacher has a responsibility to all parents and the "no sponsorship" view taken by your authority recognises this division of opinion.

What authority does the head teacher have over the PTA? Do we have to do as she tells us?

The PTA is an independent voluntary group which sits quite outside the authority chain of local council, school and head teacher. Proof of this is the fact that the PTA needs its own public liability insurance and is not covered by the council.

The PTA's legal link to the head teacher is the same as any other group or club that uses the school premises. The PTA's link to the school comes from its membership - usually all the parents and teachers/staff at the school - and its objective - it's there to support the school, improve home school links etc.

When staff sit on the PTA, they do so as members of the PTA, not as employees of the education department. If they suffer an injury when on PTA business, their claim is against the PTA, not the authority.

Of course, independence doesn't mean that the PTA can then do whatever it likes - paint the school red because it likes the colour. It has to work in partnership with the school and with the head teacher in his/her capacity as head of the school. So, if the head teacher wants the PTA to buy something, she/he can make the request, but it is for the PTA to decide.

On the other hand, if the PTA wants to paint games on the playground, they can propose that but it is for the head teacher and school to agree.

We're angry that our head teacher has just asked the PTA for Ł3,000 to buy reading books for the infants. Are we right to be annoyed?

PTAs are voluntary bodies. They have parents and teachers as members and work to support the school. But they are not part of the school and do not come under the "control" of the head teacher.

The PTA committee carries out PTA business on behalf of the members - i.e. the parents and teachers - and is responsible to those members - not to the head teacher - for what it does.

If the PTA raises any money, this is not part of the official funding for the school and it is for the PTA to decide how to spend it. Obviously this has to be in line with its aim of helping the school - there's no point in buying something the school doesn't want or organising a trip that no one wants to go on. However, the spending decisions are for the PTA.

In general PTAs should spend the money on "extras" - things like bringing in the Hopscotch Theatre Company, buying strips for the sports teams or organising an outing to the pantomime. It is a good principle not to buy things which are provided by the authority - and reading books definitely come into this category.

Head teachers have control of their own budgets for books and equipment and it is up to them to decide what they spend it on. They should not be asking the PTA to supplement this money.

Do you have a guide to the difference between a PA and a PTA? Also, do you have a sample constitution for each? I am currently secretary of our school PA, and we are exploring these issues.

The difference between a PA and a PTA is in the membership: a PA is for parents only, a PTA is for parents and teachers. However, both are voluntary, independent bodies outside the line-management of the head teacher and local authority. In both cases the organisation is linked to the school through its aims - usually to help the school or improve home-school links. The constitution for either the PA or a PTA can be the same as long as the name matches the membership. The model constitution that can be found in the "leaflets" section on this website is suitable for either.

How do we get more people involved in the work of the PTA?

We assume that you mean active involvement on the PTA/PA Committee. By rights, every parent in the school is a member of the PTA/PA.
Email is a good way of communicating information; it is less good for multilateral discussion. However, it can certainly be used to help people stay in touch. But, unless you're an expert or have the right software, mass emailing is difficult - we know, we tried it and our more expert webmaster has now taken this over for us. You should also remember that not everyone has access to email and, even if they do, they may not like to admit that they find it difficult to use it. It is often quite difficult to keep track of people as email addresses do tend to change quite frequently

One important aspect of a vibrant PTA is making sure all parents know what you do - either through a school newsletter or by putting information up on a notice board or on the school website, if your school has one.

If you have bought something for the school, make sure that parents are aware of this and perhaps have it on display at regular parent-teacher consultation evenings.

However do not focus only on fundraising events so that other parents think they are always being asked for money. Everyone gets tired of that. Make sure that your fundraising is focused and that the number of fundraising events is limited - maybe one per term.

There is a lot of value in having social events so that parents can simply get to know one another. These are often best if focused around a year group and there is no reason why they can't be fun. For example if you know someone who does colour/image consultancy, you could have an evening for, say, P4 Mums when they discuss clothes, make-up, etc and have a cup of tea/glass of wine.

There's always the trick of borrowing TV shows and using them for PTA nights. One school I know had a very successful evening with their own version of "Weakest Link". I admit that the teachers were all good sports and agreed to take part, as did the chairman of the school board. However, the outcome was that everyone had a great time and many people afterwards said that they were sorry they'd missed it.

If people are willing to volunteer to help at events, but are not willing to do the organising and turn up at regular meetings, take advantage of this. It's actually very positive. Some schools can't get anyone to turn up for anything.

Also, if quite a few of you are stepping down from the Committee at the same time don't feel too responsible to ensure succession. When one group of parents have been very efficient, I'm afraid that everyone else often simply leaves them to it. However, when the efficient group are not there, others usually pick up the ball. They may not do it how you would do it, but then that happens in all areas of life.
Do you have any ideas for getting parents/teachers involved? Let us know!

Also look at our InfoShop for school activities and fundraising ideas.

We also have a fundraising leaflet which you may find interesting.

Last term our headteacher stopped us from holding primary school discos as she said there was too much risk of injury to children and there were not enough adults to supervise.

She would like us to start up "family games night". The children really loved the discos and have been asking us to start them again. I wonder whether the headteacher has a right to tell the PTA what they can and cannot do during an evening let of the school?

The legal position of the PTA is that it is a voluntary, independent organisation and it does not fall under the control/management of the school or the local authority. When you take out a let, you are in the same legal position as if you were the Women's Guild, i.e. the event is your responsibility and your only obligation to the authority is to abide by the contract you sign when you take out the let.

Obviously, when you run a disco you do need enough supervision to ensure that everything runs properly; you should have enough adults such that if one or two have to absent themselves to deal with a problem, there are still enough others to supervise the main event. However, if the discos are PTA events, then it is the PTA that is liable and responsible for the children, not the school, and it is not for the school to decide whether they take place or not.

Having said that, a family games night sounds like a really good idea as it might involve more parents and that is something that everyone is trying to do.

Our PTA are really interested in improving road safety and getting youngsters to walk or cycle to school. We would like to get involved in a School Travel Plan but the Senior Management Team say they are too busy. What do you suggest?

You need to find some enthusiastic parents and even just one or two teachers to help. Try a letter to parents or find out if there are some keen cyclists or walkers amongst the members of staff. Tell the teachers that they can fit elements of the School Travel Plan into their lessons. Ask your local authority whether they are aware of any grants that are available. For more ideas go to www.saferoutestoschools.org.uk

We will soon be having our AGM and our constitution says that we elect Office Bearers at this meeting. Can someone be proposed for a post and not attend the AGM?

You are right to have a constitution simply so that you have a written record of things like how you appoint office bearers, how long they serve, etc. The constitution does not have to be a formal document: it is simply a description of the organisation that you want to have.

As for putting office bearers in place before the AGM - you can always appoint "acting" office bearers who can either stand down at the AGM or be confirmed in office. If someone is willing to be an office bearer, but cannot attend the meeting, they can be proposed, seconded and appointed in their absence.

I'm afraid we've got a few problems. Am I right in thinking that if the PTA make a decision as to how to run an event the Headteacher cannot change anything without consulting us?

The answer is "yes". The PTA is a voluntary, independent body and is responsible for its decisions and actions. If something you have planned is causing the school difficulties, the headteacher can ask you to make changes, but the PTA must make the decision.
And if we disagree our decision stands?
Yes, as long as you are not breaking the law or you are are in breach of your letting contract with the local authority.
If the headteacher is not at a meeting and her teacher representative agrees with our ideas, then the headteacher cannot turn around later and change things?
The answer is NO, she shouldn't!

I've just been made chairperson of our PTA, and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do!

The Chairperson is responsible for making sure the meetings run smoothly and cover the necessary business. This means that you draw up the agenda, in consultation with the Secretary, and ensure that all important items are included. The order of the agenda is important. Items which you want people to discuss should go near the beginning. Items which are not really for discussion should go nearer the end.

At the meeting you have to keep an eye on the time to make sure that you discuss issues properly, reach decisions and get through the agenda. This may mean you sometimes have to stop people chatting and get them re-focused on the business. If there is strong disagreement over something, become all formal and take a vote. Sometimes the minority have the loudest voice and crowd out the views of the majority.

After the meeting, the Secretary should give you draft minutes to check before they are sent out to anyone else. If they don't quite reflect the meeting, you can change them, but any other changes should wait for the next committee meeting.

You may find our Good Practice for Committee Meetings leaflet helpful in our Services section.

A parent is coming to our next Committee meeting to tell us about a complaint she has with the school. She is not happy with the way the matter is being handled and wants the PTA to get involved.

We think she should go to the local authority education authority.

You are quite right. Neither the PTA nor the school board should deal with complaints from individual parents. You can consider the complaints procedure in the school, but should not get involved in individual cases. You are also right in assuming that the parent should proceed first to the Headteacher and then to the local authority. The most the PTA can do is advise the parent on the proper procedure.

Are we allowed to query what happens to the money we raise?

We recently donated money towards the school garden and the Headteacher put it into the school account. She plans to spend it retrospectively on things which we already decided on.

Your PTA should control the money and only spend it according to the decisions that your Committee have taken. I would advise you to set up a bank account and only hand money over to the school in return for invoices. Your Committee is responsible to all the parents in the school - not the headteacher - and you have to report back to them about how the money has been spent. As a matter of good practice, PTA money should not be spent on things that are normally provided by the authority.
For more information, have a look at our leaflet on money matters.

Our Chair has resigned. Do we need to hold an AGM/EGM to elect a new one?

That depends on your constitution. Most would say that it's OK for the committee to co-opt a committee member as "acting" Chair. You could then wait until the next AGM or organise an EGM, (Extraordinary General Meeting) at a convenient time.

We have a PTA committee member who no longer has children at the school. She is willing to stay on the committee until we find a replacement. Is this allowed?

You need to check your constitution; if PTA membership is restricted to the parents, (in the broadest sense), of children at the school, then a parent who does not have a child at the school cannot be regarded as a member. However, in this transition phase you describe, the said parent can be asked to "help" by the PTA committee. In this way she becomes an "agent" (i.e. acting on behalf of) of the PTA and can continue in this role until such time that help is no longer needed.

We are a small PTA who regularly run school discos for the children. Can you tell me who holds ultimate responsibility for the event?

We have been discussing issues such as guidelines for parent helpers at discos, including fire safety and supervision of children if a parent fails to collect them after the disco. As a PTA we have no access to children's records to get parental contact details & would need to rely on staff members for this, who may or may not be PTA members.

The first thing to clarify is that ALL the parents and teachers at your school are members of the PTA – whether they like it or not! Your committee is elected at the AGM to represent them.
If you hold an event and it is organised by the PTA, then the committee and others that help are responsible. That is why we advise PTAs to take out public liability insurance as a PTA does not come under any local authority insurance scheme. The public liability that SPTC provides as part of our membership covers PTAs for any incident that occurs as a result of decisions/actions/negligence by them. (This also covers any helpers). For example, at one of your discos a child spills a drink and it isn’t cleared up, then someone slips and hurts themselves; the insurance would cover you for any damages. Without insurance, the committee are personally liable.
We advise PTAs to take sensible precautions ie, be aware of where the fire exits are. As for parents not collecting their child – make it a condition when you sell tickets or send a letter via the school to all the parents with a tear-off slip for their contact details in case of emergency and you could ask them about the arrangements for collecting children ie are they allowed to walk home alone?

What is the position if someone joins the PTA as a committee member but has not attended any meetings since the AGM?

Assuming that your AGM was a wee while ago and that there have been a number of meetings since then, then the usual practice is that someone is deemed to have demitted office if they do not attend meetings, particularly if they have no good reason for not attending. You can write to advise them of this and give them the chance to re-engage or simply write and tell them that they are no longer on the committee. Many thanks, Helena McHugh, Chair St. Mary's PTA, Haddington.

This is a bit awkward. I have just taken over as chair of the PSA and have some concerns about our accounting practices.

I'm pretty sure nothing dodgy is going on but I have noticed that after an event our Treasurer take the money home and counts it there with her husband as witness. I feel that this leaves the PSA and the Treasurer open to accusations of fraud/cheating. What do you think?

You are quite right. It is in everybody’s interest to keep an eye on money matters that includes having at least two signatures on a PSA cheque and counting the money in the presence of at least one other person – not a family member but someone else from the Committee or a teacher. Why not take a copy of our Money Matters leaflet to the next Committee meeting; when everyone sees this in print, it might convince them to change their way of doing things.

What is a quorum?

This is the number of people who must be present at a meeting to make valid decisions. Constitutions usually give two different numbers - the quorum for committee meetings and the quorum for AGMs.
In our model constitution we recommend a third of members, at least two of whom are office bearers.

Can we ask parents to pay a subscription in order to become members of the PTA?

It is not usual to request this. A PTA is primarily a partnership between between parents and teachers to support all in the school community and by rights the members should include all parents and teachers with a Committee representing their views on a more formal level. We believe that a subscription fee would deter people from getting involved.

Do you have guidance or rules about the ratio of teachers to parents on a PTA Committee?

There is no fixed ratio but in general the majority of the Committee should consist of parents. We also believe that it is good practice to have a parent as Chair.

Do all committee members have the same voting rights - even the teachers?

Every member is a full member of the Committee and has one vote, if needed. The teachers are members of the Committee rather than "teachers of the school". If you have a vote and there is a tie, then the Chairperson should have the casting vote.

We run an after-school club which employs a play leader. We have an employer's liability certificate through SPTC. Do we have to keep old copies?

Legislation came into effect in 1999 that requires you to keep copies of these certificates for 40 years! This applies to any certificate issued after 1/1/1998. Don't panic if you haven't done this, but maybe you should find someone/somewhere to hold future copies.

When I became Chairperson of our PTA I assumed, perhaps naively, that it was reasonable to hope that teachers would attend some PTA events to show willing for the fundraising efforts and for goodwill.

It would be fair to say that we have had no involvement from the teachers at our school, not even the teacher members of our Committee. When I queried this at our last meeting it seems I opened a hornets' nest! I now have a letter from the school, signed by ALL the teachers, accusing me of questioning their committment! I do feel that this has been blown out of all proportion, but I would welcome your feedback in terms of whether it seems usual in most schools for teachers to attend PTA events when possible.

I am sorry that you have such little cooperation from teachers on your PTA. It is normal for some teachers/the headteacher to attend events and not leave everything to parents. Obviously, if there are several events in a term , then maybe the teachers would not be able to attend them all, but otherwise it would be reasonable to expect at least one to attend.
I am sorry that you have now had such an unpleasant letter. I feel that partnership is not working too well at your school. Maybe the school doesn't want/need fundraising activities. You could suggest this to the headteacher and see what s/he says. (That is called "calling their bluff"!)

We have a nursery within our school. They have never been involved in our PTA Committee and activities.

They have recently asked for financial help for their Christmas parties and many parents are angry about this as the nursery parents have never contributed to PTA fundraising. Would it be possible to include them on our PTA Committee?

Some PTAs in primary schools do include the nursery but then the nursery parents are expected to join in with events and to contribute to discussions at meetings when appropriate. For example, when a nursery was established in a separate building at my son's school, the nursery parents joined our PTA committee and were able to discuss plans for security, etc. I think it is fair of other primary parents to feel aggrieved if they are fundraising for the nursery without any sort of help from them.
One thing to remember is that if you include the nursery, that will then increase your school roll and may, in turn, increase your SPTC membership fee.

Our usual DJ can't be at our school disco next month. The son of one of the PTA members would like to run the disco for us; he is only 13 years old.

Is it OK to say yes?

There is no reason why not, if he is competent. It is acceptable for pupils to help out at events and is is only a specific form of "helping out". I assume that you are not employing him, but you can give him a thank you gift.

My PTA run an after-school football club which is supervised by sixth year students from the local secondary school.

Does a member of the PTA have to be present in the hall during the sessions? I find they are less intimidated if I am out of the room!

No, a PTA member does not have to be present during the sessions.

I have just become Chairperson of our PTA and I want to clarify what a PTA Committee member actually is. I understand that all the parents and teachers in the school are members of our PTA.

Are all parents entitled to attend PTA Committee meetings? If so, can any parent request an agenda item?

You are quite right to say that all parents and teachers are members of your PTA. The difference between them and the Committee members is that the latter are there to run matters on behalf of the "ordinary" members. Committee members are usually appointed at the AGM for this purpose. It should be open to any interested parent to indicate that they would like to be on the committee. Standard practice is to expand the committee to allow all who are interested to join, but it is also possible to allow someone who was not at the AGM to come along on a trial basis and be an "acting" committee member until such time as they can be formally appointed.

You ask about non-committee parents attending meetings and putting items on the agenda; your meetings should always be open to all members and it is good practice to be open in your deliberations, but as Chairperson you are in control of the meeting. You should invite non-committee parents to contribute at appropriate points, but they should not join in the meeting as though they were full committee members.

The agenda should be drawn up in advance of any committee meetingby the Chairperson and the Secretary. Obviously you start with the usual - sederunt, (those present) and apologies, approval of the minutes and matters arising. You should then have a financial report - any money raised since the last meeting, money spent and the balance. You then get on to the business. Some may be follow-on items but large enough to feature on the agenda in their own right, rather than coming under matters arising. As Chair, you have to consider the amount of business and the time available. It is your duty to ensure that the meeting gets through the business. Put the main items first but make sure that you get through the other items, even if it is to decide to take them next time.

If a parent wants an item discussed, s/he should tell you or the Secretary about this in advance of the agenda being made up. It is up to you to consider where and when it should go on the agenda. Obviously, you should aim to include such items but time considerations may mean that you cannot include them immediately and you certainly will not be able to include very many items. I reckon you can fit in two major discussions in a meeting, along with all the business that should be dealt with. AOCB should never be used to raise substantive items. It can only be used for minor issues or to ask that an item is put on the agenda for the next meeting. As Chair you can rule out discussion of any major item that is brought up under AOCB.

I was very surprised when my son started school to discover that our PTA charges a subscription fee. Is this normal? It doesn't seem a very good way of attracting parents several of whom are proposing that it should be scrapped.

It is extremely unusual to charge a subscription and I agree that it should be scrapped. It was possibly introduced as an easy way of fundraising, but it doesn't tend to raise much money and it puts up barriers which limits participation, as you've already recognised. The main aim of a PTA is not to raise funds but to encourage as many parents as possible to get involved in the life of the school. The "money bit" should come naturally - if your principle target is fundraising, you will probably drive people away and actually raise less. One school in Aberdeenshire told me that they had run an "at cost" dance to thank all the parents who had contributed throughout the year. It was such a popular event, they actually made several thousand pounds!

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